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Retired Intelligence Detective Gary Jenkins brings you the best in mob history with his unique perception of the mafia. In this episode, we talk Arnold Rothstein, Meyer Lansky and the early Jewish mob. Gary interviews Dan about his book “The Incorruptibles: A True Story of Kingpins, Crime Busters, and the Birth of the American Underworld. ” Click here to get the book.
The conversation touches on violent incidents within the Jewish community, leading to a discussion on the organization and association of various underworld groups such as pimps and casino owners. The influence of Tammany Hall in the political landscape, the power of newspapers in shaping public opinion, and the role of figures like Arnold Rothstein are explored as related to organized crime.
Dan shares insights into the intricacies of the Jewish underworld’s organization, showcasing how the reform movements and vice laws of the time shaped criminal activities. The formation of the “Incorruptibles,” a team tasked with dismantling the Jewish underworld, becomes a focal point of the conversation as the book delves into the intricacies of their operations. The interview emphasizes the historical significance of early Jewish gangsters in paving the way for renowned figures like Arnold Rothstein and Meyer Lansky.
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Transcript
[0:00]
Introduction to the Roots of Organized Crime
[0:00]Well, hey, welcome, guys. Welcome, all you wiretappers out there back here in
the studio of Gangland Wire.
I got another episode here that I think you’ll find really entertaining and
kind of go back to the roots of organized crime before there was a commission,
almost when the mustache piece were just kind of a bunch of guys running around
robbing all their neighbors and things like that and the immigrant experience,
because at the same time, you had this large influx of Jewish people from Eastern
Europe primarily coming in the United States and all settling in basically the
same neighborhoods as the Italian immigrants.
And Irish were already been there for a while. They play in this too.
Because you guys all know, I’ve said this before, by the time the Italians and
the Jewish people got here, the Irish already had all the government jobs sewed up.
[0:52]They had the police jobs and they had the fire department jobs.
And that was their way, the immigrant path. And so the Italians and the Jewish
people, they have to start stores and restaurants because they’re not going
to allow them in to these existing jobs or into the trades.
And so they have to scuffle for whatever they can get.
So we’re going to talk to a man today, Dan Slater, who has written a book about
this time in New York City.
It’s called The Incorruptibles, The True Story of Kingpin’s Crime Busters and
the Birth of the American Underworld.
Welcome, Dan. I’m really happy to have you here. here. Hello, sir.
Thank you for having me. All right.
So, Dan, tell us a little bit about yourself. You’ve been a reporter.
You’ve written other books, I think, but I know you’ve been a reporter.
Tell the guys a little bit about yourself.
[1:37]Yeah. So I actually went to law school way back when, and I got out of law school.
I think I lasted for a little, I think I, I think it was less than a year.
I think that I was sworn into the New York bar and I left the profession three
weeks later and went into journalism.
I survived there for a little while, worked at a, worked at a few different
magazines and newspapers.
And then I published my first book in 2013.
[2:05]And that was a very different book than both this book and the book that came
before it. That was a book about the online dating industry.
I wanted to move on. And my second book is called Wolf Boys.
Wolf Boys is about young men who live in South Texas and become like assassins
for a big Mexican drug cartel.
And then there’s this book, which is my first project that is set exclusively
in the past and the deep past more than a century ago.
This is a story about the ancestors that we didn’t know, the people who came kind of just before us.
They were the grandparents’ parents and such.
And I think that’s what you were getting at. You know, this is before the time
when organized crime was a thing, but yet this is where it was sort of founded and established.
And that’s part of what got me into this book.
And there are lots of reasons that I came to this subject.
But what got me to the story, it was the research that I was doing on a magazine
story I was working on about a gang of violent rabbis. And this was a contemporary story.
It was a piece I reported over the course of a couple years.
[3:19]And that was a story about these rabbis who went around beating up men who had
refused to give their wives a divorce.
Course, in the Orthodox religion, there’s a thing called a get,
and the man has to sign it to release the woman from the bonds of matrimony.
And so sometimes you get men who, for whatever reason, say, I’m not going to sign the get.
Maybe they want money from the wife’s family.
[3:48]Maybe they’re just angry or whatever.
There was this little circle of rabbis that had sort of have anointed themselves
the judges of the community.
And when they had decided that one of these young husbands was refusing to get
for no good reason, they would pull him into the back of a van and put a cattle taser on his testicles.
And anyway, there’s more to that story, but that was the story that I was working on reporting.
And in the course of researching that story, I thought, huh,
violence within the Jewish community.
Now, as a Jewish guy who grew up
in Minnesota and has now lived in the Northeast, you know, born in 1977.
[4:33]These kinds of stories, these Jewish gangster types of stories,
were not stories we were told in Sunday school.
I didn’t know that existed. So that’s the reason I got into that.
I was looking into Jewish violence, reading about it in the past.
And in my reading, I kept coming back to New York in the early 1900s prior to World War I.
And there was a Jewish underworld there that existed on the Lower East Side.
And it was a significant underworld.
There were lots of parts of it. It wasn’t just pimps, prostitutes,
the gamblers, but it was also people who poisoned horses and stuff like that.
And so I was reading about that and then I stumbled on sort of a footnote about
how the uptowners, the Jews uptown, who were the wealthy Jews from the western side of Europe,
they said, this is really embarrassing that our co-religionists getting this
sort of attention. attention.
[5:35]And it wasn’t just the embarrassment, it was that at the time,
there was this sort of nativist movement to shut down the borders.
And so the German Jewish uptowners thought, man, for the people who want to
shut down the borders, the Jewish underworld is a great reason.
It’s a sort of validation for, you know, the argument.
So they wanted to wipe it out. So their attempt to sort of do that,
to clean the Lower East Side, is the story that I tell in the book.
[6:06]Interesting. You know, and there’s like a total parallel to today is Hispanic
immigrants coming in and committing some kind of crime.
And those are great reasons for isolationists and people that don’t want anybody
else in the country to use.
And they’re using it all the time. And so everything old is new again,
because this has been around since then.
I’ll be darned, I never really, I didn’t really realize that.
And the interesting thing I discovered, one of the interesting things I came
across was that, and again, something I did not know, that if you would have
said the word ghetto prior to 1945,
the word would only have a Jewish connotation.
People would not associate the word ghetto with any other ethnicity or race.
So that’s totally different, right? I mean, and this is a word that actually
goes back to the 1500s in Venice,
and that’s where the word emerges, and it emerges there in relation to the Jewish ghetto.
So this was a word that these people actually sort of invented,
and it was a concept that they invented as a result of their marginalization.
[7:16]Right. And so where they would live there on the lower east side,
everybody would refer to that as the ghetto at the time.
Absolutely. And at the time it was that was the right thing to call it,
because at the time it was the most densely packed urban area in the world there.
Like the crowding was was unimaginable by 1909, 1911 was when that kind of peaked.
And so with that comes an underworld. And that’s again, that’s what that’s the story I tell in the book.
Really? And so your book kind of starts off, you know, a good TV mystery or
TV show, cop show will always start off with a murder. And yours kind of starts off with a murder.
You’ve just kind of touched on the underpinnings, the basis for where we got to this murder.
And I believe 1912 of Herman Rosenthal, I believe was a gamer’s name.
So tell us about Herman, Herman Rosenthal a little bit.
Yeah. So he was an interesting guy. He was was himself an immigrant.
He was a Russian Jewish immigrant who came with his family or with part of his
family to the Lower East Side when he was about five years old.
[8:24]And he was always a gambler from the time he was a kid.
And so he becomes a casino owner. He finally sort of moves out of the ghetto
as a lot of the casino owners wanted to do.
And he got the permission he
needed from the politicians to open up a casino in the 42nd Street area.
And that was where everyone wanted to be, because that’s where a lot of the money was.
That’s where people played for a lot of money up there. So he got permission to open a casino.
And then what happened was there was a reform movement that came along.
And suddenly the cop that he was used to paying off was now taking his money,
[9:02]
Dan’s Transition to Journalism
[9:01]but also shutting him down.
And so Herman got angry about that. He didn’t think it it was fair that you
make the payoff, but then he also gets shut down and raided.
So he started to talk to the press about that, which went against the rules
of the underworld, right?
You don’t squeal, you don’t talk to reporters, you handle it internally.
That’s another thing that’s kind of eternal throughout these stories, right?
No snitches. So Herman became a target.
And that’s That’s why Herman was shot outside the Metropole Hotel on 43rd Street in the summer of 1912.
[9:37]And that’s the event that sort of launches the story that I’m telling. Now, was he shot?
Did the policeman, did he himself do the shooting or get some other coppers to do that?
I assume there was more than one in on the protection racket at the time.
And that particular area is probably a precinct right there.
They had a racket going on.
Did he do it or did he correspond or maybe agree with other gamblers or find
some kind of maybe Italian hitmen or other Jewish gamblers?
It was Jewish hitmen. It was four young Jewish hitmen, one of whom is an important figure in the book.
[10:16]And the question of whether or not the cop that was complained of had a role
in the murder of this guy, that was an open thing.
That was what the trials were sort of about.
There was a lot of controversy there. I think if it had been certain that the
cop had had a hand in it, then it would not have become the story that it did.
[10:39]It was that sort of lingering question. And so that becomes a big story for the next three years.
It’s on the front pages of newspapers up through the summer of 1915.
During that time, the story that I’m telling in the book sort of happens behind the scenes of that.
Now, the headlines start off with the investigation.
Did somebody find these guys right away and charge them so they had images of
who did the killing and then found out who they were?
And that kind of stirred people up. Why did it stay in the papers for so long
and they paid so much attention to it? Because it brought out so much information.
All these gamblers and people in the underworld were turning states’ witnesses
to get to evade a prison sentence, as people have always done.
And all this stuff spilled into the open.
And the American public was, you know, shocked that there was this much corruption
and, oh, it just goes to show that, you know, New York and the urban areas of
America are these sort of swamps, you know, where immigrants,
you know, come and it becomes a depraved sort of environment.
That was that was the image that a lot of people sort of held on to dearly at the time.
And here was a story that totally reinforced everything that that some people had already believed.
And so the cops at the time.
[12:05]Everything I’ve read about Lugmore and Kansas City at the time,
they’re not going to go in and clean up, so to speak.
They’re not going to go in and make a lot of cases. They’re not going to stop
this gambling or stop this prostitution, stop this drug dealing.
They just want to get a little piece of the action, usually.
And so somebody, the way I’m looking through your book and reading through your
book, the way I understand it is these uptown Jewish people decided that they
would try to do something themselves.
Is that how the book then unfolds? They take it upon themselves,
which today, to think of it in today’s terms, that’s kind of a weird concept.
[12:43]Yeah, vigilante. The wealthy folks in a town would be able to put in motion
this private repressive police force, aka vigilantes.
But at the time, it wasn’t quite as weird because there were other places where
that was happening, where private money was able to sort of buy law enforcement,
buy the services of law enforcement.
So you were listening, you were taking your marching orders from the wealthy,
which I guess isn’t surprising.
But yeah, these uptowners, the German Jews, they had been trying to eliminate
the Lower East Side underworld at that point for almost a decade.
And they had tried a bunch of tactics and nothing had worked.
A lot of things had backfired. And so finally, now they were saying,
OK, there was this murder of this Jewish casino owner.
It’s bringing all this attention to what we don’t want attention toward.
So we got to do something ourselves. And that’s when they they find a young man.
He’s a 21 year old who was born and raised on the Lower East Side.
And he was raised, as everyone is who was born and raised down there at that
time, he’s raised among the underworld. It’s all around him.
[14:04]And he has a lot of close friends that he loses to that.
He’s also the son of a reformer. He’s the son of a pretty interesting guy who’d
been a union leader in the garment unions.
[14:18]He was a person who’s always trying to uplift and and elevate the neighborhood.
And his father had worked with a lot of the uptowners going back to the 1890s
to try different things to sort of elevate the ghetto.
But nothing had worked. And that was 1912. And his son was now 21.
And the uptowners find his son. And they say, hey, can you start to get us some
information that we can actually move on and take to the mayor?
[14:47]
Gathering Intelligence and Forming a Squad
[14:46]And the mayor goes to the police department.
They were essentially looking for names of the cops who
were you know were paid off yeah they were like they
were like an intelligence unit they were they were they were going out
gathering intelligence in this closed world right
and they could move freely in
this world and with no shopkeepers and no neighbors
and and they could go talk to them and say hey who’s this guy
what’s he doing so and then they were putting that together into
a picture of what was going on is that what you’re saying so yeah
so this young man whose name was abe and
in fact if you give me a minute this is
abe yeah right yeah that’s
him at 21 around the time that these people
find him he has a bunch of informants placed around who are reporting to him
so and then he’s also gathering information himself through that network he’s
able to have some success in the early months of this, the end of 1912.
[15:47]And he does well enough with it that the mayor of the city says,
I’d like to install you in the NYPD, and you have a squad, and you guys will
go around and raid and run out of town.
[16:03]All the brothel, the brothel owners, the pimps, the casino owners,
da-da-da-da-da, going through these different phases of the the Jewish underworld.
And that’s, that’s the story of the book is how, how they, you know,
how they try to, uh, to go about that.
Yeah. That’s, uh, yeah, that was before you had all these legal niceties,
like the Miranda warning and that kind of thing. Yeah.
That stuff was just starting to come into being the sort of the legal protections.
And that’s a, that’s a theme in the the book is, is how those protections kind of came along,
how some of them failed, because of the vice laws, in order to have a, you know, a drug war,
you need to be able to put the Fourth Amendment aside every once in a while,
so that those two things came into conflict.
[16:55]In the context, I think, of the story that’s in the book.
Relating to really my own experience in modern times during what we would call
the crack wars of the 1980s and 90s, and I hate to say it, admit it,
I was one of Ronnie Reagan’s soldiers in the war on drugs in those days.
And you would get informants, and I was reading this in your book about people
would report things about just have a name and a gun.
Joe Trout, fence and gun. Carl castle
fence and gun and then give an
address and say you know this is a disorderly room
house or have some names and
you i used to get names from people in the neighborhood and they would just
give you these cryptic little things that they’d seen in the neighborhood trying
to let you know that this was a coke house and this this was more this is a
house that people show up once in a while but they don’t really seem to operate
out of it and those kinds of things and and you know And I’ll tell you what,
they didn’t care about legal niceties, those neighbors of those people.
[17:58]
Changes in Law Enforcement Approaches
[17:55]We had to care about it, but they didn’t care about those legal niceties.
And back then, you could get that stuff from a neighbor, an informant,
and just go kick the door in and take everybody down and destroy that gambling
table, just destroy the table.
[18:10]It’s a little bit different. That’s how far we’ve come. But yet,
some things are still the same.
Yeah, that was it. there were a lot of people down there who who
wanted to see that stuff out as well the
underworld had a lot of power because it made so much money yeah
but there were there and a lot of people were
afraid to confront them were afraid to oppose them because
the jewish underworld went back it
you know it had such a history particularly in
the place that these refugees had come from which
was the western border of russia the pale
of settlement which was another ghetto it
was a different kind of you know it was a different sort of ghetto because
there the geography was so large it was the whole western border of europe it
was like our southern border still it was it was a ghetto the jews were you
know are required by law to live there and it was pretty brutal there was a a ton of oppression.
There were massacres. And there was a big underworld there. There was a big smuggling underworld.
There was a lot of prostitution. And in order to operate, you had to pay folks off.
[19:20]So that was almost, that had almost become part of the culture.
Like everyone just expected to pay people.
How organized were they, this Jewish underworld at the time?
It was impressively organized.
Okay. It was impressive. They’re starting to get organized, but I didn’t,
and the Jewish people, the Murder Incorporated and Meyer Lansky, they’ll be organized.
And that, but that comes out of this.
That’s got to come out of this. Later, yeah, I am telling,
although Meyer Lansky does make an appearance toward the end of the book,
as we follow the story into the 20s, the bulk of my book takes place prior to 1915.
Right. And so these guys that you’re talking about, they’re going to be,
they’re forming the basis that Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegel and those guys
will then build on what they, that’s what we’re going to learn out of your book.
Is that what I hear you say?
[20:18]Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s exactly right. Go ahead.
Yeah. So you asked about the organization of it. And this was one of the most
interesting things I learned is that these different sort of areas of the underworld,
like, for instance, the pimps, the pimps had their own association.
It was like a networking group, a business group. They actually filed to be
a corporation under New York state law in 1903.
Three they filed they filed the
constitution they filed you know bylaws that spell
out things like their unemployment insurance plan their
burial plan for members what the monthly dues were going to be and all these
pimps gathered at this cafe on second avenue and that’s where they hung out
and played cards and did business and traded prostitutes back back back and forth with each other.
And, and, and they had like a union, they had a, they had a company almost.
So that’s just one example. And there was other groups like the casino owners.
Yeah. They had an association.
[21:22]And, and one of the big functions of the association is that people who are
all involved in prostitution or people who are all involved in owning a casino,
or they have to pay off a lot of people.
And you don’t want to make a bunch of payments. You want to make one payment.
So there’d It’d be the association would pool the payments every month and then
it would get, you know, paid up to, you know, to someone at the top.
So how did they fit in with Tammany Hall? Did they help get the vote out or
did they get involved in elections or anything?
Yeah. So in addition to all that money, the way that you served,
you know, Tammany Hall was exactly that.
She got out the vote. And it was so much so that it wasn’t really even safe
to vote in those years because people would be, it was, there was a lot of intimidation
at the polling stations.
[22:19]And, yeah, so, you know, the democratic process itself was a dangerous thing
that had sort of been, you know, taken over by the underworld.
So that is yet another phase of it that the people in my book have,
[22:39]
Influence of Newspapers on Public Opinion
[22:34]you know, to confront is getting the populace to vote again, to say, hey, it’s okay.
You don’t have to pay off the gangster you
have to pay off the cop and you can go to the voting
booth like that was the fundamental rules they
needed to impart now what what was the primary
news organization of the day was the new york times where they going and was
it the daily news i can’t remember did they really some particular well-read
paper jump on this and get the headlines lines out and try to influence the city government?
Yeah, there were a ton of newspapers at the time. There was,
you know, the NYT, I believe, had the largest circulation.
[23:18]But I think there were something like 14 mainstream newspapers,
in addition to all the foreign language newspapers.
There were a ton because there were so many immigrant groups.
So on the Lower East Side, there were
I don’t know how many Yiddish papers there were a lot there
were a lot of Yiddish papers I don’t know more than 10 you
know at least but the forward was the
biggest and the forward had a lot
of power and in 1912 the year that that the story kind of kicks off in the book
the forward built this gigantic building on east broadway downtown and that
That was the largest building on the Lower East Side for the next several years.
But that just goes to show that that was a newspaper that had a lot of power.
It had almost as many readers as The Times.
[24:15]And so it and its editor play a role in the book, I’m telling you.
Yeah, I figured they would, but you know, in Kansas city, we had the newspapers of those times.
If there looked like there was something they could dig into,
they would send out like squads of newspaper reporters and just start talking to people,
trying to find out what was going on and then put it into some kind of a,
an article with some big, bold headlines and, and really try to really affect public opinion.
These guys were depending on the public just to to keep their mouth shut and
go on while the newspaper can be a huge force in stirring that public opinion
up against the gangsters.
Absolutely. And there were a lot of papers that just love to write about crime. Yeah, it sells.
[25:03]So there was a lot of good coverage, actually. And I had a lot of amazing sources
for this book, but one of the best sources was, you know, the newspaper archives.
Yeah. When you have that many newspapers, you’ve
got a lot of reporters out there in every corner writing stuff
down yeah so and they’ll get
firsthand accounts of different things that’ll happen and
somebody else may not get will never hit the
courthouse or anything it’s a heck of a story now i i guess did the name arnold
rostein figure into any of this you know he’ll become on and kind of be as a
tie as we mentioned mayor lansky before and he’s a little bit older than lansky
i believe he would have been a young man during this time coming up.
And he’ll be pretty important on organizing gambling along with the Italians
and more on a national basis when they have the wire service and are betting
on racetrackets around the country and that kind of thing.
[26:01]
The Rise of Arnold Rothstein
[25:58]Did he come up out of this? Did you have anything about him?
Rothstein plays a big role in the book. Like the vice reformer that we follow,
we also follow Rothstein from the time that he’s a boy.
He’s kind of the flip side because he’s somebody who learns to take advantage of the reformers laws.
[26:19]So as we know today, you know, anytime you ban something, you create a black
market for it and someone is going to come in and serve that market.
And he learned that very early on. I don’t think he set out to be like a criminal mastermind.
He was, he was a gambler.
He was a gambling addict from the time he was a kid.
And he just lived for massive amounts of risk and he was also very brilliant and.
[26:54]I he was a he he’s an example of someone who
was really made by the times that they happen to live in because as all these
vice laws are getting passed it’s not just that there’s a crusade it’s not just
that there’s a war on crime it’s that the war on crime is now all of a sudden
being being backed by laws that hadn’t before existed.
Bans of alcohol, bans of narcotics, laws against prostitution.
Just realize that anytime that you try to regulate something,
there’s going to be some money to be made.
I think he understood that for the first time in 1907 or 1908,
which is good more than a decade before he is later accused of fixing the 1919
World Series, Which I think is the event that most people know Rothstein for.
If you know Rothstein at all, I think to the older generation,
Rothstein is still a known figure.
I think for younger people today, even people my age, I’m in my mid-40s,
if I asked most of my friends who Arnold Rothstein is, they would have no idea.
I think he is a really important historical figure because all the crime narrative
that we obsess over today,
from the Godfather all the way through to in podcasts and film and television,
all this stuff that we eat up.
[28:17]All these narratives we tell, it really started in this place.
And it started in large part because of this one person. I think does not necessarily
reflect the kind of figure that you’d imagine.
You know, if he wouldn’t, he wouldn’t compare well to Vito Corleone.
He wouldn’t, he would have nothing to do with Chapo Guzman, for instance.
But maybe, you know, maybe he would a little bit. He was just a guy who was a game.
Gambler. He wore a suit and he hung out in Times Square and he took a lot of
meetings and he knew a lot of people and he had a lot of money and he used that
money to be kind of a bank for the underworld. Yeah.
So anytime you needed money to do something,
to go smuggle a bunch of drugs or move a bunch of whiskey during prohibition
or open a new casino or even a legitimate enterprise, You want to open a restaurant.
He was someone you could go and see.
And he financed from the, again, back, you know, going back to the time he was
a kid, he was a, he was a financier of, of, of the stuff that happened beneath
the surface of legality.
[29:33]
Formation of the Incorruptibles
[29:28]Finish this off with what happened with the incorruptibles? Oh, man.
Well, what happens with the incorruptibles is it becomes a team of these young
men who are paired with a very select portion of the NYPD.
[29:46]To take down the Jewish underworld. And what happens with them is they are going
to take that mission seriously.
And we’re going to see that fight unfold.
And that is really the heart, I think, of the book is the whys and the hows of that.
All right, Dan Slater, I really Really appreciate you coming on.
And folks, I’ll have links to the book and to Dan’s author page on Amazon.
So you can get his other books.
If you’re interested, if you’re interested in the online dating service,
why you probably learn more than you ever wanted to know about Dan’s book.
Would you imagine? Probably. You just might.
[30:34]All right, Dan, I really appreciate you coming on the show. Thanks a lot.
All right, buddy. Thanks a lot. All right. Okay. See you. Bye.
Well, guys, I thought that was really interesting. We kind of went off a little
[30:49]
Legacy of Early Jewish Gangsters
[30:47]bit from the incorruptibles, got back to them.
But the Arnold Rothstein stuff, the Merlansky, and those guys that we all know,
they stand on the shoulders, really, of these early Jewish gangsters.
So I really appreciate Dan coming on the show.
Be sure and get that book if you’re interested in reading books like that.
I’ve got a copy of it here, and I’ve been going through it. I haven’t really
had a chance to read it. I know it’s back up over my shoulder. There it is over there.
I’m going to go back and really get into it now. I just didn’t take time for
it. I had to make notes out of it.
Anyhow, get that book. I think it’s really going to be a good read if you’re
a serious student of organized crime in the United States.
This is going to get you right back to the roots of it.
So don’t forget, I like to ride motorcycles. Watch out for motorcycles when
you’re out there on the streets. And don’t forget that if you have a problem
with PTSD and you’ve been in the service, go to the.
[31:43]VA website and get that hotline. And if you have the kind of the co-problem
drugs or alcohol addiction, whether you’ve been in the service or not,
and I think the VA has drug and alcohol recovery services.
But if you’re not a veteran, go see Anthony Ruggiano. He’s down in Florida, former Gambino guy.
And he’s got a treatment center. He works in a treatment center down there.
He’s got a hotline number on his website.
And don’t forget to like and subscribe subscribe and go back and look at my older stuff.
I’ve got a lot of stuff out there. We’ve got a Gangland Wire podcast Facebook page or Facebook group.
It’s a private group now because I’ve got too many spammers on there.
So get hold of me and I’ll send you an invite to your Facebook name and see what else I got.
Give me a review. If you’re on the Apple podcast, give me a review.
All those those kinds of things help.
And comment, let me know on the Facebook. I’ve got a Facebook page too.
Let me know what you want to hear, what you like, what you don’t like.
YouTube, you know, you can make comments there. I answer them.
I see all those practically and I answer them if somebody asks a question, if I possibly can.
Sometimes it’s a legitimate question. I get some questions aren’t so legitimate on there sometimes.
So anyhow, I really appreciate you guys tuning in. Thanks a lot.