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In this episode of Gangland Wire, Gary Jenkins sits down with author Craig McGuire to discuss his gripping book, Empire City Under Siege, a deep dive into three decades of FBI manhunts, mob wars, and organized-crime investigations in New York City.
Craig explains how the project grew out of his collaboration with retired FBI agent Anthony John Nelson, whose career spanned the most violent and chaotic years of New York’s Mafia history. From Nelson’s early days as a radio dispatcher in 1969 to his transition into undercover and frontline investigative work, the book captures the gritty reality of law enforcement during the 1970s and 1980s.
We explore how Nelson’s career mirrored the evolution of organized crime and law-enforcement tactics, including the rise of undercover stings, inter-agency cooperation, and the increasing role of technology. Craig highlights the close working relationship between Nelson and NYPD detective Kenny McCabe, whose deep knowledge of Mafia families and quiet professionalism led to major breakthroughs against organized crime. He tells how these two investigators wathced and uncovered the Gambino Family Roy DeMeo crew under Paul Castellano and Nino Gaggi.
Throughout the conversation, Craig shares vivid, often humorous slice-of-life stories from the book—tense undercover moments, dangerous confrontations, and the emotional toll of living a double life. These anecdotes reveal not only the danger of the job but also the camaraderie and resilience that sustained agents and detectives working in the shadows.
The episode closes with a reminder that Empire City Under Siege is as much about honoring unsung law-enforcement professionals as it is about mob history. Craig encourages listeners to support true-crime storytelling that preserves these firsthand accounts before they’re lost to time.
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0:02 Welcome Back to Gangland Wire
2:14 The Journey to Anthony John Nelson
4:46 The Life and Work of Law Enforcement
15:00 Inside Anthony Nelson’s Early Career
26:49 The Dynamic Duo: Nelson and McCabe
30:16 Tales from the Underworld
35:55 The Tragedy of Everett Hatcher
39:12 The High-Stakes World of Undercover Work
40:56 Closing Thoughts and Inspirations
transcript
[0:00] Hey, all you wiretappers. Good to be back here in studio of Gangland Wire. I say the same thing every time. I hope it doesn’t bore you too much, but I am back here in the Gangland Wire studio. And I have today an author who interviewed and wrote a book with an FBI agent named Anthony John Nelson, who was one of the premier FBI agents in New York City that was working the mob. And even more interesting about him to me was he formed a partnership with a local copper named Kenny McCabe, who you may know the name. I had read the name before several times as I started researching this and looking at the book, but he was a mob buster supreme and Agent Nelson really formed a dynamic duo. But first, let’s start talking to Craig, your book, Empire City Under Seize, Three Decades of New York FBI Field Office Manhunts, Murders and Mafia Wars. How did you get involved with Anthony John Nelson?
[0:55] Hi, Gary. Thanks for having me on your show. Big fan. Appreciate the opportunity. Very interesting and winding path that led me to Anthony’s doorstep. I also previously wrote another book, Carmine and the 13th Avenue Boys, which was about an enforcer in the Colombo family during the Third Colombo War. And I was introduced to Carmine Imbriali through Thomas Dades. Tommy Dades, he’s a famous retired NYPD detective. So after the success of that book, Tommy introduced me to another member of law enforcement. I started to work on a project that sort of fell apart. And one of the sort of consultants, friends that I met with during that was Anthony Nelson. And then one day as that, due to my own fumbling, as that project was falling apart, I had a delightful breakfast with Anthony and his wonderful wife, Sydney, Cindy, one Sunday morning. And Anthony’s pulling out all these clips of all these investigations and all these Jerry Capiche gangland clips. And it was just fascinating. And so I started to realize that there’s something here because I’m also a true crime fan and I remember many of these cases.
[2:08] So it took a while to get Anthony to agree to write a book. He’s not one for the spotlight. He’s really your sort of quintessential G-man, modern G-man. It’s also somewhat of a throwback. But he eventually was interested in doing a book if we didn’t just shine the spotlight on him. Gary, you should know the original, the working title of the book was In the Company of Courage. And that’s really the theme that Anthony wanted to bring forth. You’ll notice throughout the book, there are some vignettes and some biographical information about many of the members of law enforcement that I interviewed, but then we also covered and who are no longer with us. It was my privilege to write this book sharing Anthony’s amazing history, 30 years at the FBI and then several years at the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office as an investigator. And just like one of the themes is just to really shed some light on the valuable work that members of law enforcement, including you, sir. Thank you for your service. And we think too often these days, members of law enforcement are maligned and there’s a negative light cast on them. It’s the most difficult job in the world. And we just want to make sure that we’re shining some light on that valuable work that the thousands of members of men and women in law enforcement do every day protecting us.
[3:24] I appreciate that. I’ll tell you what, all the way from the rookie on the street making those domestic violence calls and party armed calls and armed robbery alarms calls that are, there’s nothing there the first five times you go. And then all of a sudden there’s a guy running out with a gun all the way up to the homicide detectives. And even the people that handle the budget, they all paid their dues out on the streets and organized crime investigators, of course, and narcotics. I really appreciate that. It’s a thankless job for the most part. Once in a while, you get a little thanks, but not much. As we used to say, it was fun. I can’t believe they pay us to do this.
[4:01] Gary, it’s like you’re repeating some of the lines of Frank Pergola to Al King, just like that. And that’s key, that thankless piece. I remember interviewing Frank Pergola, just famous New York City detective, worked on Son of Sam. He also worked on solving 79 homicides related to the Gambinos and the DeMeo family. And he echoed those same sentiments. While you’re investigating a case, it’s the victims’ families and the victims, their nerves are so fraught. It’s such a stressful situation. And the members of law enforcement bear the brunt of a lot of that frustration.
[4:41] And too often, there’s no thank you at the end. And it’s not that they want to thank you. It’s just that they want the sort of closure, not even the recognition, just some sort of realization that they did a great job. And it’s unfortunate that they don’t, that doesn’t happen as often as it should. I appreciate it. Let’s talk about Anthony Nelson. He sounds like a very interesting character. Talk a little bit about what you learned from him about his early career. And I want to tell you something, that recalcitrance, I believe that’s the word, $25 word if I’ve ever heard one. His refusal to really make himself a hero or the center of attention. That’s pretty common among cops and FBI agents. I’ve noticed we’ve got, I’ve got a good friend here in Kansas City, wrote a book about the mafia in Kansas City called Mopsers in Our Mist, but he refused to put himself into the book. He had a publishing company that wanted him to do it and was going to pay him to do it, but it had to have him as a hero. He said, we have to have a hero in this book. He says, I won’t do it. So that Mr. Nelson, Agent Nelson, that’s not that uncommon. So tell us a little more about some of his early cases.
[5:49] Anthony Nelson, interestingly enough, his career trajectory and really his life tracks with the latter half of the last century. And a lot of the technological evolution, the rise of organized crime post-prohibition, these themes of urbanization, radicalization that came out from the starting in the middle of the century. But really heating up as a young Anthony Nelson joins the FBI in 1969, really mostly in administrative roles, radio dispatcher first, eventually he’s an electronics technician. So I’m sure, Gary, you can reflect on, and some of this will resonate with you, just how archaic some of the technology was. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah. Back then, we have some fantastic anecdotes and stories in the book, but just also like, for example, when you’re responding to a hostage crisis and you don’t have a cell phone, you don’t have minimal communications and talking about, you better make sure you have a pocket full of dimes and knocking on a neighbor’s door because time is of the essence and to establish contact. So just some of this great, really interesting material there. Eventually, Anthony was sworn in as an agent in 1976, and he entered the FBI Academy at Quantico, graduated in 77.
[7:13] And interestingly enough, Anthony reflects like some of his fellow graduates, perhaps were not as keen on going to New York, one of the larger field offices, perhaps wanting to cut their teeth at a smaller office, but he obviously wanted to go home. So he was, and he jumped right into the fray, really assigned to hijacking. And he was an undercover operative in Red Hook during the 1970s, like the really gritty. And from the stories and from the various folks I interviewed, this really was gritty New York back then with the economy failing, crime on the rise.
[7:48] Gary, you look, I heard an interesting stat last week where you had, there was almost a record setting that New York City had not reported a homicide for a record 12 consecutive days. And that had not happened in decades. So when Anthony joined the FBI, they were recording five homicides in New York City. And also during the 70s, you also had this, when you talk about radicalization, with 3,000 bombings nationwide, corruption was rampant. You had credit card fraud was just kicking off. You had widespread bread or auto theft and hijacking. Again, at the street level, Anthony was the front for a Gambino-affiliated warehouse where he had first right of refusal, where some of the hijackers would bring in the loads. And he was doing this on an undercover basis. So he jumped right in. They set him up in a warehouse and he was buying like a sting, what we called a sting operation. He was buying stolen property. They thought he was a fence.
[8:50] Yeah, they started doing that in the 70s. They hadn’t really done, nobody had done that before in the 70s. ATF kind of started sting operates throughout the United States. We had one here, but they started doing that. And that was a new thing that these guys hadn’t seen before. So interesting. He was that big, blurly guy up front said, hey, yeah, bring that stuff on. Exactly. If you look on the cover, there are three images on the cover, and one of them is following one of the busts afterwards where they tracked down the hijacked goods. I believe it was in New Jersey. So you could get the sense of the volume. Now, think about it like this. So he’s in Red Hook in the mid-70s. This was actually where he was born. So when Anthony was born in 49, and if you think about Red Hook in the early 50s, this was just a decade removed from Al Capone as a leg-breaking bouncer along the saloons on the waterfront. And this was on the waterfront, Red Hook eventually moved to Park Slope.
[9:49] And this was where Crazy Joe Gallo was prompted, started a mob war. And this was when any anthony is coming of age back then and most of his friends is gravitating so to these gangster types in the neighborhood these wise guys but this was a time pre-9-1-1 emergency response system so the only way to report or get help was to call the switchboard call the hospital directly call the fire department directly so you had the rise of the b cop where it wasn’t just the police they were integral part of the community and there’s this really provocative story Anthony tells the first time he saw a death up close and personal, an acquaintance of his had an overdose. And the beat cops really did a sincere effort to try to save him. And this really resonated with the young Anthony and he gravitated towards law enforcement. And then a little bit, a while later as a teenager, they’re having these promotional videos, these promotional sort of documentary style shows on television. And Anthony sees it, and he’s enamored by it, especially when they say this is the hardest job in America. So he’s challenged, and he’s a go-getter. So he writes a letter to J. Edgar Hoover, and Hoover writes him back.
[11:03] So it’s a signed letter, and now Anthony laughs about it. He says it was probably a form letter with a rubber stamp, but it really had an amazing impact. And this is at the time when, you know, in the 50s, you really had J. Edgar really embrace the media. And he actually consulted on the other famous, the FBI television show, several movies, the rise of the G-Man archetype. So Anthony was fully on board.
[11:28] Interesting. Of course, J. Edgar Hoover wanted to make sure the FBI looked good. Yes, exactly. Which he did. And they were good. They had a really high standards to get in. They had to be a lawyer or accountant or some extra educated kind of a deal. And so they always think, though, that they took these guys who had never been even a street policeman of any kind and they throw them right into the DPN many times. But that’s the way it was. They did have that higher level of recruit because of that. So, Anthony, was he a lawyer or accountant when he came in? Did he get in after they relaxed that? Oh, that’s spot on. I’m glad you brought that up. So now here’s a challenge. So Anthony needs that equalizer, correct? So if you’re a CPA, obviously a former member of the military, if you’re a successful detective or a local police force, one of these type of extra credentials.
[12:20] Anthony’s specialty was technology. Now, when you think of technology… Not the ubiquitous nature of technology nowadays, where you have this massive processing power in your phone, and you don’t really have to be a technologist to be able to use the power of it. This is back in the 1960s. But he always had an affinity for technology. And he was able to, when he, one of the other requirements was as he had to hit the minimum age requirement, he had to work for a certain amount of time, he was able to get a job at the FBI. So he was an electronics technician before he became an agent.
[12:59] And he had all of the, and back then this was, it was groundbreaking, the level of technology. And he has some funny story, odd, like man on the street stories about, I’m sure you remember Radio Shack when there was a Radio Shack on every other corner, ham radio enthusiasts. And it was cat and mouse. It was, they had the members of organized crime had the police scanners. And they were able to, if they had the right scanner, they had the right frequency. They were able to pick on the bugs planted really close to them. And he tells some really funny stories about one time there was a member of organized crime. They’re staking out, I believe it was the cotillion on 18th Avenue. And then I believe he’s sitting outside with Kenny McCabe. And then one of this member of organized crime, he’s waving a scanner inside and he’s taunting them saying, look, I know what you’re doing. And so it was that granularity of cat and mouse.
[13:55] Rudimentary kind of stuff. Yeah. We had a guy that was wearing what we called a kelk kit. It was a wire and he was in this joint and they had the scanner and so but they had to scan her next door at this club And all of a sudden, a bunch of guys came running and there’s somebody in here wearing a wire. And my friend’s guy, the guy I worked with, Bobby, he’s going, oh, shit. And so he just fades into the background. And everybody except one guy had a suit on. Nobody had a suit on except this one guy. So they focused on this one guy that had a suit on and went after him and started trying to pat him down and everything. Bobby just slipped out the front door. So amazing. I mean, you know, Anthony has a bunch of those slice of life stories. I also interviewed a translator from the FBI to get a sort of a different perspective.
[14:42] It’s different. Like the agents a little bit more, they’re tougher. They’re a tougher breed. They go through the training. Some of the administrative professionals, like the translators. So this one translator, it’s a pretty harrowing experience because remember the such the insular nature of the neighborhoods and how everyone is always
[14:59] looking for someone out of place. So she actually got a real estate license and poses a realtor be able to rent apartments and then she spoke multiple dialects and then just to have to listen in and to decipher not only the code but also the dialects and put it together when you have agents on the line because remember you have an undercover agent if they get discovered more often than not the members of organized crime are going to think they’re members of another crew so you’re dead either they’re an informant if they think they’re an informant you’re dead if they think you’re an agent yeah just turn away from you say okay we don’t deal with this guy anymore if you think you’re informant or somebody another crew or something trying to worm their way in then yeah you’re dead exactly so interviewing maria for this you get that sense from someone who’s not in like not an agent to get true how truly harrowing and dangerous this type of activity was and how emboldened organized crime was until really the late 90s. And back then, it truly was death defying.
[16:02] Oh, yeah, it was. They had so many things wired in the court system and in politically in the late 70s and early 80s and all these big cities. No big city was immune from that kind of thing. So they had all kinds of sources. They even had some clerks in the FBI and they definitely had all the court. The courthouses were just wired. And I don’t mean wired, but they had people in places and all those things. So it was death to find that you got into these working undercover. Ever. Hey, you want to laugh? I don’t want to give away all the stories, but there was a great story. I remember Anthony saying, they set up a surveillance post in an apartment and they brought in all the equipment while they were, then they got the court orders and the surveillance post actually got ripped off twice. So while they try, like after hours, someone’s going, yeah, ripping off all the FBI equipment. So you have this extra level of, so that gives you like, It really was Wild West then. Really?
[17:00] So now he gets into organized crime pretty quick, into that squad and working organized crime pretty quick. I imagine they put him in undercover like that because of his accent, his ability to fit in the neighborhood. I would think he would have a little bit of trouble maybe running into somebody that remembered him from the old days. Did he have any problem with that? I spot on, Gary. I tell you, this was he. So he’s operating in Red Hook and actually throughout the next several years, he’s periodically flying down to Florida as a front for New York orchestrated drug deals. So he’s going down to Florida to negotiate multi-kilo drug deals on behalf of organized crime. But at the same time, he’s an agent. He eventually rose to be supervisory special agent. He’s managing multiple squads. So there did come an inflection point where it became too dangerous for him to continue to operate as an undercover while conducting other types of investigations.
[18:02] Interestingly enough they opened up a resident agency office the ras are in the major field offices in the fbi they have these they’re called ras i’m sure you’re familiar these like mini offices with the office and they’ll focus on certain areas of crime more geographically based so they opened up the brooklyn queens ra and that really focuses heavily on organized crime but also hijacking because you had the, especially with the airport over there and a lot of the concentrations of, especially in South Brooklyn, going into Queens. So he worked there. Also the airport. Also the mass, you have this massive network of VA facilities. You have the forts. So you need these other RA offices. So you have a base of operations to be able to investigate. But Anthony has such a wide extent of case history, everything from airline attacks to art theft heists to kidnappings, manhunts, fugitives. There was Calvin Klein, the famous designer, when his daughter was kidnapped by the babysitter, it did do it. Anthony was investigating that. So it’s just, and while he has this heavy concentration in organized crime. I mentioned that. What’s this deal with? He investigated a robbery, a bank robbery that was a little bit like the dog day afternoon robbery, a standoff. What was that?
[19:30] This was actually, it was the dog day afternoon robbery. They based a dog day afternoon on this. Exactly. What you had, and this was before Anthony was when he was still in his administrative role. So he had a communications position. So he was responsible for gathering all the intel and the communications and sharing it with the case, the special agents on site. So what you had was like, he’s with the play by play of this really provocative hostage. It was a bank robbery that quickly turned into a hostage crisis. And then, so throughout this whole, and the way it eventually resolved was the perpetrators insisted on a particular agent. I apologize. It slips my mind, but he’s a real famous agent. So he has to drive them to JFK airport where they’re supposed to have a flight ready to fly them out of the country. And what happens is they secrete a gun into the car and he winds up shooting the bank robbers to death. And there were so many different layers to this bank robbery. It eventually became the movie. And a funny story aside, the movie, while they’re filming the movie, Anthony’s at his friend’s house in downtown Brooklyn. It may have been Park Slope. And they’re calling for extras. His friends run in and say, hey, they’re filming a movie about this bank robbery that happened on Avenue U. You want to be an extra? And he said, nah, no thanks. The real thing was enough for me.
[20:55] I’ll tell you what, it wasn’t for a New York City organized crime and New York City crime. Al Pacino wouldn’t have had a career. That’s the truth.
[21:05] Now, let’s start. Let’s go back into organized crime. Now, we’ve talked about this detective, Kenny McCabe, who was really well known, was famous. And during the time they worked together and they were working with the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office. Is that correct? Were both of them working for it? Was he at the FBI and Kenny was with the Brooklyn DA’s office?
[21:26] When you think about thematically, in the company of courage, Kenny McCabe was really close. This was a career-long, lifelong, from when they met, relationship, professional relationship that became a deep friendship between two pretty similar members of law enforcement.
[21:46] Kenny McCabe had a long career in the NYPD as organized crime investigator before he joined the Southern District Attorney’s Office as an investigator. So the way they first crossed paths was while Anthony was working a hijacking investigation. So he gets a tip from one of his CIs that there’s some hijacked stolen goods are in a vehicle parked in a certain location. So he goes to stake it out. Like they don’t want to seize the goods. They want to find out, they want to uncover who the hijackers are and investigate the conspiracy. So then while he’s there, he sees a sort of a familiar face staking it out as well. Then he goes to the, he goes to the NYA, a detective Nev Nevins later. And he asks about this guy. And so this detective introduces him to Kenny McCabe and right away strike up with his interesting chemistry. And they’re like, you know what? Let’s jointly investigate this. So they wind up foiling the hijacking. But what starts is like this amazing friendship. And I’ll tell you, the interesting thing about Kenny McCabe is almost universally, he’s held in the highest regard as perhaps law enforcement’s greatest weapon in dismantling organized crime in the latter half of the 20th century. For example, I interviewed George Terra, famous undercover detective who eventually went to the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office.
[23:12] And he had a great way. I hope I don’t mangle. Kenny knew all the wise guys and they all knew Kenny. And when I say he knew all the wise guys, he knew their shoe sizes. He knew who they partnered with on bank jobs years ago. So he knew who their siblings were, who their cousins were, who they were married to, who their girlfriends were, what clubs they frequented. For example, during the fatical hearings, where they would do sentencing, often the defense attorneys would want the prosecutors to reveal who their CIs are for due process, for a sense of fairness. And they refused to do that, obviously, for safety reasons, and they want to compromise ongoing investigations. So in dozens, perhaps so many of these cases, they were bringing Kenny McCabe. He was known as the unofficial photographer of organized crime.
[24:07] For example, I think it was 2003, he was the first one who revealed a new edict that new initiates into Cosa Nostra had to have both a mother and a father who were Italian. Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. He was also, he revealed that when the Bonanno family renamed itself as Messino, he was the one who revealed that. And then when Messino went to prison for murder, his successor, Vinnie Bassiano, Vinnie gorgeous. When he was on trial, that trial was postponed because so many of law enforcement leaders had to attend Kenny McCabe’s funeral, unfortunately, when he passed. So this is such a fascinating thing. Now, why you don’t hear more about Kenny McCabe, and I interviewed his son, Kenny McCabe Jr. Duke, is like Kenny McCabe like really issued the media spotlight. He would not, he wasn’t interested in grabbing the microphone. So you have almost no media on Kenny McCabe. If you do a Google search for him, I believe the only thing I ever found was a picture in his uniform as an early career police officer.
[25:19] So it’s really hard to even do a documentary style treatment without having any media because B-roll is just going to get you so far. So really what Duke has been doing over the last two decades or more is really consolidating all of these as much material as he can. And I think eventually when he does put out a book, this thing’s going to explode. It’s going to be like true Hollywood treatment. But now going back to the mid-70s, so these two guys hook up. You have the FBI agent and you have the police detective.
[25:49] Craig, what you always hear is that the FBI is suspicious and doesn’t trust local authorities. And local policemen hate the FBI because they always grab all the glory and take everything, run with it. And they’re left out. And I didn’t have that experience myself. They’ve got the case. They’ve got the laws. We don’t locally, county and statewide, you don’t have the proper laws to investigate organized crime. Yes, sir. But the feds do. So that’s how it works. This really blows that myth up that the local police and the FBI never worked together and hated each other.
[26:25] I’m so glad you brought that up because this was very important to Anthony. He has so many lifelong friends in the NYPD, and I’ve interviewed several of them. And just this sincerity comes across, the camaraderie. In any walk of life, in any profession, you’re always going to have rivalries and conflict, whether healthy conflict or negative conflict.
[26:46] Even more, you’re going to find that in law enforcement because the stakes are so high. But it’s a disservice to… And what we want to do is sort of dispel the myth that there was no cooperation. Why there were very well-publicized conflicts between agencies prosecuting certain cases. This was the time where technology was really enabling collaboration. Remember, and you had a time, if you had to investigate a serial crime, you had to go from jurisdiction to jurisdiction and you had to interview investigators. You had to comb through written records to piece this together. So it really was not conducive for collaboration.
[27:22] So what you saw was the rise of, and then you had these investigative tools and these legal tools like RICO, while they were still trying to figure out and to build. So now you had the litigious tools where you could build conspiracies and prosecute them. So this sort of helped ferment this sort of collaborative interagency, which eventually led to these joint task force that were very successful. What I really love is this microcosm of Anthony Nelson and Kenny McCain. Now, Anthony Nelson was issued a Plymouth Grand Fury with the full police interceptor kit. If you’re familiar with that make and model, no automobile ever created screams cop-mobile like the Grand Fury. And so what you had was after hours, Anthony and Kenny would join up and they would go prowling the underworld with the Grand Fury on purpose. They wanted to be as conspicuous as possible. to the point where they would park in bus stops across the street from these social clubs. And when I say social clubs, they were…
[28:29] Everywhere. There were dozens of them all over Brooklyn and Queens. And these are cafe, social clubs, bars, restaurants with heavy OC presence, blatantly conducting their business. So you have these two, Anthony’s always driving. Kenny’s always riding shotgun with his camera. I assume it was some sort of 35 millimeter hanging out the side, taking down names, license plates. Just a great story. You had Paul Castellano in front of Veterans and Friends on 86th Street when he had Dominic Montiglio start that social club so he could have more of a presence in Brooklyn on the street so that he actually crosses the street and he goes to Kenny and Anthony. And he’s saying, guys, you don’t have to sit out here. You could come down to Ponte Vecchio in Bay Ridge. I have a table there anytime you want to talk to me. So it’s that level of bravado. But pretty soon it changed. Once more of this intel started to build these real meaningful cases, Castellana put an edict, don’t talk to these two, don’t be photographed. What came out of that was an amazing partnership where they gathered so much intelligence and Anthony is very.
[29:46] Quick to have me point out, give more credit to the investigators, to the agents, to the detectives. They gathered a lot of the intelligence to help with these investigations, but you had so many frontline folks that are doing a lot of the legwork, that are doing the investigations, making the arrests, that are crawling under the hoods. So it’s pretty inspiring. But then you also had some really good, and I don’t want to share all the stories
[30:12] in the book. There’s a great story of Kenny and Anthony. They go into Rosal’s restaurant because they see this.
[30:21] There may have been a warrant out on this member of law enforcement. So they had cause. So they go in and there’s actually some sort of family event going on. And they’re playing the theme song of The Godfather. As they go in and then they have to go into the back room to get this member of organized crime who’s hiding. So it’s these kind of really slice of life kind of stories that just jump out, jump out of the book. Really? I see, as I mentioned, they had some kind of a run-in with Roy DeMeo at the Gemini. You remember that story? Can you tell that one? Yeah, there’s, so Kenny and Anthony, throughout the hijacking investigations.
[30:59] Were, they were among the first to really learn of this mysterious Roy. And his rise. And then also Nino. Remember Nino Gadgi was the Gambino Capo who took over Castellano’s crew, Brooklyn crew, when he was elevated. And then Roy DeMeo was really this larger than life maniac serial killer who formed the Gemini crew, which was a gang of murderers really on the Gemini Lounge in Flatlands, which is really close to Anthony’s house. And Kenny’s not too far. Didn’t they have a big stolen car operation also? Did they get into that at all? Yes. Stolen cars, chop shops. Remember, this is when you had the introduction of the tag job, where it was relatively easy to take the vehicle identification numbers off a junked auto and then just replace them with the stolen auto, and then you’re automatically making that legitimate. And then, so they’re doing this wholesale operation where they’re actually got to the point where they’re shipping hundreds, if not thousands of these tag jobs overseas. So it was at scale, a massive operation. Roy DeMay was a major earner. He was such an unbalanced, very savvy business for the underworld, business professional, but he was also a homicidal maniac.
[32:22] Some say they could be upwards of a hundred to 200 crimes. Frank Pergola alone investigated and So 79 of these crimes associated with this crew. And it got to the point where, and he had a heavy sideline in drugs, which was punishable by death in the Gambino family, especially under Castellano. So then what you had was all these investigations and all this intelligence that, and then with this collaboration between the FBI and NYPD. Oh, wow. It is quite a crew. I’m just looking back over here at some of the other things in there in that crew in that. You had one instance where there was a sentencing hearing and of a drug dealer, I believe, a member of organized crime. And Kenny McCabe is offering testimony to make sure that the proper sentencing is given because a lot of times these guys are deceptive.
[33:16] And he mentions DeMeo’s name. So DeMeo in a panic. So then maybe a couple of nights later, they’re parked in front of veterans and friends. And DeMeo comes racing across 86th Street. Now, 86th Street is like a four-lane thoroughfare. It’s almost like, oh, I grew up in the air a few blocks away. So he’s running through traffic. And then he’s weaving in and out. And he’s screaming at Kenny McCabe, what are you trying to kill me? Putting my name into a drug case? They’re going to kill me. And so it’s that kind of intimate exchanges that they have with, with these key members of organized crime of the era.
[33:52] Wow. That’s, that’s crazy. I see that they worked to murder that DEA agent, Everett Hatcher, that was a low level mob associate that got involved in that. And then supposedly the mob put out the word, but you gotta, we gotta give this guy up. But you remember that story? Now, this is another instance where I remember this case. And I remember afterwards when they killed Gus Faraci. So what you had was, again, and this is very upsetting because you had DEA agent Everett Hatchard, who is a friend of Anthony’s. To the point where just prior to his assassination, they were attending a social event together with their children. And he would also, they would run into each other from time to time. They developed a really beyond like camaraderie, like real friendship. So then, so Hatcher has, there’s an undercover sting. So there’s Gus Faraci, who’s, I believe he was associated with the Lucchese’s, with Chile.
[34:55] So he gets set up on the West Shore. And so he’s told to go to the West Shore Expressway. Now, if you’ve ever been on that end of Staten Island, that whips out heading towards the outer bridge. This really is the end of the earth. This is where you have those large industrial like water and oil tankers and there’s not really good lighting and all this. It’s just like a real gritty. So he loses his surveillance tail and they eventually, he’s gunned down while in his vehicle. So then Anthony gets the call to respond on site to investigate the murder. He doesn’t know exactly who it is until he opens up the door and he sees it’s his friend. And this is the first assassination of a DEA agent. It was just such a provocative case. And the aftermath of that was, again, like Gus Faraci, who was, he was a murderer. He was a drug dealer, but he did not know. He set him up. He thought he was a member of organized crime.
[35:53] He was just another drug dealer. He did not realize he was a DEA agent. And then all hell broke loose. And you had just the all five families until they eventually produced Gus Faraci, set him up, and then he was gunned down in Brooklyn.
[36:06] Case closed, huh? Exactly. Yeah. And as we were saying before, I don’t remember it was before I started recording or after that. When you’re working undercover, that’s the worst thing is they think that you’re an informant or a member of another crew and you’re liable to get killed. At one say, I had a sergeant one time. He said, if you get under suspicion when you’re like hanging out in some of these bars and stuff, just show them you’re the cops. Just get your badge out right away because everything just, all right, they just walk away then. It’s a immensely dangerous thing to maintain your cover. Yes, sir. Anthony was always good at that because tall gentleman has the right sort of Italian-American complexion. He’s passable at Italian. So with some of these folks, especially from Italy that come over, he could carry a conversation. He’s not fluent.
[36:56] And he just walks in and talks in. It’s a different… George Terror was a fantastic undercover detective. And you talk to some of these undercovers, it’s like you have to be… There’s sort of this misperception that the organized crime members are like these thugs and flunkies. These are very intelligent, super suspicious, addled individuals that are able to pick up on signals really easy because they live on the edge. So you really can’t fake it, the slightest thing. And again, they’ll think that their first inclination is not that you’re a member of law enforcement. Their first inclination is that you’re a member of a rival crew that’s looking to kill me looks at looking to rip me off so i’m going to kill you first it’s just it’s just a wild and imagine that’s your day job oh man i know they could just and i’ve picked this up on people there’s just a look when you’re lying there’s just a look that just before you catch it quick but there’s a look of panic that then you get it back these guys can pick up that kind of stuff just so quickly any kind of a different body language they’re so good with that.
[38:02] And he’s also, he has to be able to say just enough to establish his connection and credibility without saying too much that’s going to trip him up. And that’s like being able to walk that line. He tells, again, I hate giving away all these stories because I want readers to buy the book, but he has this fantastic story when he’s on an undercover buy and he’s, I don’t know if it’s Florida, if it’s Miami or it’s Fort Lauderdale and he has to go into a whole, like the drugs are in one location and he’s in that with the drug deals in one location and he’s in this location and, but he knows the money’s not going to come.
[38:42] So he has to walk into this hotel room with all these cartel drug guys who are off balance, knowing that he’s got to figure out, how do I get out of this room without getting killed? And once I walk out, will the timing be right that I could drop to the floor right when the responding FBI agents, again, these are FBI agents from a different
[39:08] field office that he perhaps doesn’t have intimate working. knowledge of. I got to trust that these guys got my back and they’re not distracted. So I can’t even imagine having to live with that stress. No, I can’t either. All right. I’ll tell you what, the book, guys, is Empire City Under Siege, the three decades of New York FBI field office man hunts, murders, and mafia wars by Craig McGuire with former retired FBI agent Anthony John Nelson. I pulled as many stories as I could out of the book from him. You’re going to have to get the book to get to the rest of. And believe me, I’m looking at my notes here and the stuff they sent me. And there are a ton of great stories in there, guys. You want to get this book.
[39:50] I also want to say there’s something special going on at Wild Blue Press. My publisher specializes in true crime. And it’s just, they’re so nurturing and supportive of writers. Just fantastic facilities and promotions. And they just help us get it right. That’s the most important thing, Anthony, accuracy. So if there’s anything wrong in the book, that’s totally on me. It’s really hard to put one of these together, especially decades removed. But then I’m just thankful for the support of nature of Wild Blue and Anthony and all the remarkable members of law enforcement like yourself, sir. Thank you for your service. And Anthony, and I’m just so inspired. I just have to say, they’re like a different breed. And you folks don’t realize how exciting. Because there are so many stories like Anthony would come up with and he would say, do you think readers would be interested in this story? And I fall out of my chair like, oh my God, this could be a whole chapter. So it was as a true crime fan myself of this material, it’s just, it was a wild ride and I enjoyed it.
[40:56] Great. Thanks a lot for coming on the show, Craig. Thanks, Gary. You’re the best.